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Abadi reveals to Rawadaw the details of the events of "October 16" and his position on the overthrow of the government of Abdul Mahdi
By [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] 3 hours agoHaidar Abadi
Ruudao - Baghdad
Former Iraqi Prime Minister Haidar al-Abadi said he does not consider himself against the current government and does not want to "drop it". "If this government is not capable of reform, we will resort to another method," he said.
"The law was imposed in Kirkuk without bloodshed, I have dealt with the Peshmerga clearly, I have not considered the Peshmerga an enemy," Abadi said in an interview with the Roudao media network in "Today's Event" : You are from us and I respect you and cooperate with you, "noting the efforts to improve relations between Erbil and Baghdad:"
The following is the text of the interview:
Ruudao: During the last period, you announced your resignation from all positions in the Dawa Party, and criticized his performance, how can the current leadership of the Dawa Party to take control of things in Iraq again?
Haidar al-Abadi: A group of ideas here, the Dawa party of the very old parties and presented many of the victims against the dictatorship and gave a lot to the Iraqi people and the nation in general, and we are talking about performance and people and not everyone working in any party is infallible and therefore we have to reform Of course, I disagree. The Dawa Party did not assume power in this sense. The Prime Minister was for four sessions, but the government in Iraq is a reconciliation government and a government. The joint between several blocks is thus all responsible And I do not want to judge the Dawa Party in this regard, but perhaps I can judge the political process, whether it is brute power, Baath authority that destroyed Iraq and led us to the bottom or after 2003 and the American occupation and the like of the terrorists and the problems that occurred in The country of disputes between the political blocs.
RODAOUDO: Well, my question is, who are the people who pushed you to criticize the Dawa Party? What is the reason why you are calling to reconsider the party's performance?
Abadi: Certainly there is no infallible person from the wrong, I mentioned in the introduction that there may be achievements and mistakes in my government, I do not claim infallibility, this is a large country and the party is a large system, and there are successes on the one hand and failures on the one hand, This experience is a completely failed experience? Or have bright aspects and perhaps delayed the march? Reform requires walking forward and always improving ourselves. When you look back you may see things you did not see at that stage, perhaps because of maturity or new information you did not own or because of work practices that led to some kind of failure, I hide that it is not all due to ignorance, but perhaps the failure or fall of the human personality in certain joints or stages and causes the decline.
RODAOUD: What was the worst mistake that the Dawa Party made in the period after 2003 until now?
Abadi: I envisage not renewing, which party should renew itself, you know that the Dawa Party was subjected to a fierce attack by the Baathist Baathist regime of executions and prisons and many of its members migrated out of Iraq. The issue of renewing the party in contact with the nation and with the Iraqi citizens needed to be more cohesive with the citizens, we wanted to see the young and different faces of different nationalities and orientations in the country, and this was possible for the party.
RODAO: Is the new leadership of the Dawa party able to renew the party and bring it back to the scene and enjoy the satisfaction of citizens?
Abadi: I had hoped that, so I withdrew from all the positions of leadership in the party and called on my brothers to withdraw also, but it seems that some do not agree with me, let's wait and see, for me did not occupy any leadership position in the party also announced before the conference that I will retreat from All my leadership positions in the party and served the community and the march for which we sacrificed for a long time.
RUDAO: Does this mean that you have just given up on leadership positions and that you are still a member of the Dawa Party?
Abadi: membership in the Dawa Party is a semi-open membership, meaning that you can not give up your 50-year history of jihad. I can not resign from this march and we can not erase the sacrifices we made in one step, and I continue to give and sacrifice. To add a lot of reforms to begin the march of extension of the previous march, but we get rid of mistakes.
RUDAO: Do you want to reform the Dawa Party or establish a new party?
Abadi: No, I will not establish another party. I imagine that we do not need ideological parties at present. Iraq may need them elsewhere. Do not forget that the Dawa Party did not participate in the last parliamentary elections. I am encouraged by this, but the political process needs something else and we have to be close to the citizens, and this is the movement of the present. We must provide services to the citizens and raise our country to make hope.
RODAOUD: As an opponent in the Dawa Party, you are seen as an opponent of Adel Abdel Mahdi's government as well. Do you plan to form an opposition front with the wisdom movement against the government of Abdul Mahdi?
Abadi: Of course the stream of wisdom is closer to us, where we were together in the reform alliance and then in another alliance, they are close to us in their orientations, but each of us has its own specificity. As far as the opposition is concerned we have a point of view and called it a detailed opposition. We are against the current government, and we do not want to topple it. We do not want to weaken it, but to strengthen it, by pointing to the faults of the government to reform them and pointing to the places of power to increase them. This is our present approach. If this government is incapable of reform, We have a political process through which we can change For the state.
RODAOUDO: How long will you wait to make this decision on whether or not to assess the success of the government?
Abadi: Of course, it is a cumulative process. The government is now nine months old. During this period, the government presented an evaluation of its government program and its percentage. We have workshops to study this program, and so far there is a clear difference between what the government is doing and what is proven by reality. Between the two, and I do not imagine that the government document presented with its achievements is close to reality, it is true on paper, for example:And we are looking at the real achievement on the ground, as you know we were suffering from the problems of this government do not suffer from them, as we had a real problem in the budget collapse of oil prices but the prices are good now, we have received a free budget, But it has received a good budget, as well as the security situation where the current government inherited an excellent security situation, as well as Iraq's excellent relations with neighbors and the international community, and the government to add other things also good, and should not be satisfied with previous achievements, because these achievements will end.
RUDAO: Do you mean that the current achievements are not made by the government but by the ones you left?
Abadi: Every government is heir to the previous government. One country and governments govern it. It is cumulative and complementary. The next government is either relying on what exists or correcting the previous government's process. Which is about 7 months to approve all the decisions again, and this step was a step not complementary as if we live in a conflict and not in integration.
RODAOUDO: Well, what are your main criticisms of the current government?
The first is the question of security because it inherited an excellent and good security. It assumes from the beginning of its work to complete the previous work, which is to rebuild the security forces and to be completely subordinate to the state leadership. There is no weapon outside the state. There is progress, and I imagine that this is a big mistake, and the second is government spending. In our time, we cut unnecessary government spending. Because of the rise in oil prices for several years between 2010 and 2014, government spending has become enormous. This is important for the development of the country, to put the rest of the funds for reconstruction But we see that the government is expanding spending seriously again. The draft budget for 2020 is a serious draft, in which there is a huge shortage and unacceptable spending, like a destruction of everything we have done in the past. We are dealing with neighboring countries, but we must not respond to everything
RODAO: You did not address some of the things about services and citizens, but let's talk about the security aspect. I visited Baghdad during your time and wandered around. Now that you have returned, you feel that the number of checkpoints has become less and the security emphasis has been reduced. Security situation or deterioration?
But we did not focus on that, because we had much bigger achievements than that, and if the security leaders in Baghdad and the citizens now retreat, they will tell you that it is a matter of course. But now I do not want to be smaller than what the government has done now, but note that they are talking about this achievement only, which is not the achievement, even if the plan reviewed even the Green Zone We opened it in our time, but in time There were demonstrations that broke into the Green Zone, which we had to close because of the internal elements that wanted to do some work by exploiting this chaos. The current security was not possible without eliminating the urge. At the time, we developed the intelligence apparatus so that it reveals an encouraging planning, Not only execution time, this is a development
Rawadaw: If anyone heard this debate from outside Iraq, they would think Iraqi voters wronged you. Despite these achievements, you could not get a lot of votes. This requires clarification. Did the Iraqis mistake you not to give you confidence again, or are you talking about it? another thing?
Abadi: No, the Iraqi people did not keep me, but the injustice of corrupt and forgers, and I achieved a great achievement in this framework, and we have formed a professional committee is not biased from the Iraqi oversight bodies and proved the existence of fraud on a large level, the political process went like this, but this forgery can not To continue and in the upcoming provincial council elections, we have to do something to prevent it. The other thing is that the bloc was new, starting with the election campaign a month or a month and a half ago, and I did not benefit from the state resources at all, nor from the security forces. So, he did not make a decision in a while Tkhabat can be benefited from it, on the contrary, all delayed decisions until after the elections so that there is no impression, that I benefited from the state, however we have achieved 42 seats suddenly, despite fraud, and I imagine that this is accomplished, the Iraqi people did not punish us, but the voice of us.
Roudao: The bloc was new, but you are a veteran and experienced politician. As I said, you have been fighting for 50 years, not new so people do not know you. Sometimes there is talk of attempts to overthrow the government of Abdul Mahdi. Do you have any information about this?
Abadi: I warn against the overthrow of any government. In my opinion, any government must take its course. Every government has a four-year term and therefore we must allow the government to do what it can. To bring down the government and this leads to the decline of the country, except in one case, if the government is unable to continue either because of poor performance or because of the inability of officials to continue and this is another matter and we have to think about how to find a new government in this case.
RUDAOUD: As part of the criticisms I made to the government of Abdul-Mahdi, you did not talk about some things, including lack of electricity and drinking water, besides unemployment. Why do not you remember it? Are they improved or are they bad?
Abadi: I talked about creating jobs, and I said that this government has a 30% better budget compared to the budget of our previous government, and it should have acted in creating jobs and providing services to citizens, but so far we wait. As for water, I imagine that the water problem has been solved. For this year, because of the heavy rainfall and many waters of the country of origin.
RUDAO: I meant drinking water ..
Drinking water is connected with the presence of water in this framework, and comes from the same source as the water of agriculture and others, we have started a new policy and we can not say that water is always available, the situation is not as it was 50 years ago, because neighboring countries have huge dams, and we have to establish A new water policy, whether for agriculture or drinking, is essential for the country to continue to develop. As for electricity, there is a problem. The government is talking about generating electricity. As you know, electricity production needs at least four years, from design to completion. , If this was from the past and now appeared, but the problem is in Allen This plan needs a strategy, and in my government we signed a road map with Siemens. The study ended in 2018. This map extends from generation to consumption. The current government signed another agreement with Siemens after freezing the first agreement for seven months. The previous agreement, if continued for the status Electricity is better, and this summer is less heat than last summer so far, and therefore the generation of electricity is better, and we should not forget that Iran cut off electricity last summer, by 1200 MW, and this year the electricity has increased 1300 MW, There is a shortage of water and plug the Mosul was not working, but now generates 450 MW, which means that there is an increase of 1200 MW, and with the entry of new service stations assumed an increase of 4,000 MW this year, but this did not reflect on additional service to the citizen, This means that there is a strategic imbalance, the waste of electricity must stop, and the example of Egypt's production Electricity is 29 thousand megawatts and Iraq's current production is 18 thousand, an increase by one and a half, while its souls are three times higher than ours. However, electricity in Egypt is enough for all citizens, some say that Iraq is hotter, but there are hot areas in Egypt, Egypt has heavy military and non-existent industries, and we have the waste
RODAOUD: Why did not you manage to limit the waste of electricity during your rule?
Abadi: We started with the issue of collection and fight the excesses, and do not forget the period of war and there is a lack of potential, but we succeeded, and in the election phase fought political blocs and opened the way to non-collection and called for electricity to be free, and urged people to not pay, The followers of these parties do not pay electricity fees.
RUDAOUD: You are adamant with Prime Minister Adel Abdul Mahdi's decisions about popular mobilization. At the same time, you have criticized some leaders of the popular crowd about wealth-making and the possession of huge palaces. Is there any evidence that they use the name of the crowd?
Criticized some of the politicians who are trying to exploit the popular crowd for their interests, and benefit from it in the field of corruption, and this is not my words, but the words of the leaders of the popular crowd themselves from the heroic fighters who give me this information, and talk about this bitterly, and they are keen to crowd, To protect this experience by keeping the corrupt and prevent them from exploiting the popular crowd by political leaders trying to make the crowd a political side of their interests, and they want to mobilize the popular crowd in the conflicts of the political blocs or in conflicts with the state, while the crowd for each country, This is a big mistake. We also criticized the military commanders who wanted to exploit the army for their own interests. In 2014 I spoke strongly about corruption in the army. We removed some of the leadership and brought in new people, thus improving the army's performance. , But after this reform turned our army into a national army welcome in all
Rawadaw: In the past, when you were prime minister, you praised the popular mobilization in general and gave it support, but you are criticizing it now. My question is, is it because some of the leaders of the crowd did not join the victory coalition and caused you not to be prime minister again? Reason?
Abadi: No, even when I was prime minister, I was attacking those who exploit the popular crowd. Some of the factions stood against me. Some factions were talking against me and trying to assassinate me, but I did not stop and I am not in conflict except with the corrupt ones and I try to preserve this experience. , And at the beginning of 2016 issued a decree ordering the popular mobilization. At the end of that year, the Diwani Order became law in Parliament. In 2018, a system was issued to organize the mobilization and defense of the fighters. Before the elections, it ordered all groups to choose between being in the crowd, Participate in the elections as a political party and cut off But the "group" ran the elections and want to control the popular crowd and exploit its resources badly. This is a new experience in Iraq and we have to protect it. I think that the popular mobilization statement was a strategic mistake that said, "Our corruption is like Corruption of others " , But since you are a new experience, why do you clone the corruption of others? But you have to stay away from corruption, that is, there is a recognition of the existence of corruption and imbalance, but they say: we can not reform, but I say: No, we can reform, the removal of the corrupt.
Roudao: Not far from the popular crowd, and by talking about Kirkuk, you started a process called "law enforcement" in 2017. But an unstable situation ensued. The people in Kirkuk and the region were displaced and the property burned. The Kirkukis say their situation is bad. What happened when I was prime minister?
You know that the status of Kirkuk is a special situation in the Iraqi constitution, and according to the Constitution, Kirkuk is under the control of the federal government, but with the entry of da'id and terrorism, this balance has changed. One of the mistakes that happened is the empowerment of a da'eech. And we have liberated these areas, and Kirkuk should have returned to normal normalization of its status, and this is what we did, and I disagree because coexistence in Kirkuk is better than before, and the federal authority in Kirkuk at least in the time there were strict orders to deal With citizens on the basis of citizenship regardless Their nationalities and their affiliations. Praise be to Allah. The security forces succeeded in dealing well with the citizens of Kirkuk, so that we did not make changes in the local police. They are from the governorate. What is important is the interests of citizens in Kirkuk. The federal is who is in Kirkuk, and the situation is better now than it is
RODAO: There are still many Kirkukis displaced in the Kurdistan Region after 2017, and now in the harvest season many of their crops have been burned, is not that bad in itself?
Abadi: The burning of crops is a crime, and we were hoping that the government would issue an explanation about why the crops were so widely burned this year not only in Kirkuk but also in Mosul and other areas, although there were attempts by terrorism or others. We are talking about the origin. Of course, the security forces are Iraqi, we are Iraqis, we live in one state and therefore the law is imposed by the forces. Iraqi security is good, and I feel in myself that it is Net There are severe and media propaganda by the parties in Kurdistan forces in Kirkuk, called "occupying forces" But who? Are they foreign troops coming from outside the Iraqi border? We must cooperate together to impose security, to have the interests of the citizen in mind, regardless of his identity, and not to say that if I do not control, I have to fight others, and I imagine that dealing with this in one federal country was not seriously separated. The operation was not in Tuzkhurmato but was entirely under the control of the Peshmerga. A year before this date, we asked them to have Iraqi forces with them. In the judiciary, to be better security, but they categorically refused, then at one moment clashed with a To the local residents, and there was a sensitivity between the Turkmen brothers and Kurds inside Tuzkurmatu, and the Peshmerga, and then they went away in one fell swoop, and within 24 hours ordered the re-control of Tuzkhurmatu by the federal authority, has been attacked and burned houses of
RODAO: On this plan, it is still talking in the Kurdistan Region that if no group in the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan called the October 16 group, you could not control Kirkuk, would you like to explain this plan to me?
I did not consider the Peshmerga an enemy, and my speech to the Peshmerga: You from us and I respect you and cooperate with you, the fact that the Peshmerga did not fight, although The Peshmerga did not want to enter into a fight with Iraqi security forces and it is with them, and do not forget that those who participated together in Mosul and became close to each other, and there is a new situation, namely that they did not want to fight, and therefore It was ordered without confrontation, I have heard in the media about the accusation of a betrayal And I imagine that before you accuse others of betrayal, it is better to review your policy. There is a big mistake. Why is it that the Peshmerga, which fought with us, called for fighting heroes? Why did not they fight in Kirkuk? Why did not they obey the orders?
RODAOUDO: Well, but perhaps some say that the Peshmerga fought in my coldness and its passivity?
Abadi: This was later, and later issued orders, and came again, and was an attempt to occupy and bloodshed, and this policy is wrong, because the media unfortunately in some quarters in Kurdistan was wanting bloodshed and fighting until the Kurds line up behind him and control the Kurds, Our policy was quite the opposite, we did not want bloodshed, and I will remind you of something that could have been more than this. The land was open to us, but we did not do it because we knew there would be bloodshed. We know that if our forces had stretched more It is a clash with others, but for us human beings are more important than land and more important than ours I, so keen not to crash.
Roudao: Well, there has been a lot of talk in Kurdistan about this. Some may say how you would move forward. Your troops were broken in the Berdy area when you entered a battle with the Peshmerga forces and the progress of the popular crowd was stopped. Progress?
This is not true, there was an attempt to enter into a confrontation with the Iraqi army, has no justification, and there was no direction to Erbil or any other place, whatever was imposed by law and ended, there have been attempts, And we have proven to us that it is blatantly unjustified aggression, and an attempt by some leaders in Kurdistan to drag the Iraqi army into direct combat, but we have moved away from this subject. We do not want this confrontation. We have no ambitions. I am the prime minister of Iraq. , And the interest of the Sunni as well as interests of the Azzidi and Turkmani all I remember when they said four months later that there was not enough money to pay the salaries and the situation became difficult in the Kurdistan Region, so I sent a team and checked the salaries and found that the existing are 400 1,000 staff in the Region and this information from the Region
RODAO: The Peshmerga forces have been very well described, but after 2017, especially in your speeches, both at home and abroad, you did not mention or mention the Peshmerga forces. Why was there a marginalization of the Peshmerga forces in your recent meetings?
Haidar al-Abadi: No, I did not mention the Peshmerga. I did not mention all the items. I did not mention the Peshmerga, so the brothers in the popular crowd were hurt and said that I did not mention the popular crowd. Iraqiya and all its varieties, and I did not intend definitely not to call the Peshmerga or not to call the popular crowd.
Roudao: My question will be related to the referendum. You mentioned that you support Kurdistan, the citizens of Kurdistan and all the citizens of Iraq. At the same time, you imposed a number of sanctions on the citizens of Kurdistan Region. At a time when you consider all Iraqis to be offered all services?
We did not impose sanctions, they also call them, we wanted to impose the correct mechanisms, airports and everything related to the outside of Iraq all belong to the federal authority, we prevented us from flying abroad except by imposing federal authority, but they refused to do so we had to stop international flights and that they committed , When they committed, we prepared international flights at the airport of Erbil and Sulaymaniyah, if the sanctions were not by us but were from the authority in Kurdistan, it imposed a penalty on the population and wanted to be a problem, but once we imposed the law were opened airports, the other thing, there is cooperation The Iraqi army also defended the Kurdistan Region, the Peshmerga and the other forces and citizens after the liberation of Mosul are sleeping at night quietly, and even the Peshmerga axes that were adjacent to the drowsy areas of Mosul, the Peshmerga forces participated with the Iraqi forces in some axes to eliminate the crowd together, but it was not true and once The connector has been freed to go to
The Kurdish leaders came to Baghdad and discussed with you before the referendum. They explained to you that it is not for independence. They said that we only want to know the opinion of our citizens on the question of the referendum, and I also, through my program, have emphasized many of the guests I hosted. Or not, and they responded that only to know the opinion of citizens, why was it so heavy for you to this extent?
Haidar al-Abadi: Yes, that's what they said. We heard about the referendum from the media. I told them that this is not a referendum, this is an opinion. There are institutions that take the opinion of the citizen, so why is the regional government doing this? I have declared it more than once as Prime Minister that I respect the aspirations of the Kurdish citizens in the Kurdistan Region, which Kurdi may aspire to have a state, both inside Iraq and abroad, and I respect this ambition, but this is something and that you cut off part of Iraq , They said this, but when the referendum approached, they said something else, and they became And I did not do anything until the referendum, only addressed the Federal Court to reject the referendum, and addressed us the international community, and they were with us, the loss of Iraq at that stage was not true, but the group became insistent on the establishment of a separate territory so they entered into Problems with the rest of Iraqis and neighboring countries.
RUDAO: It is said that the measures that you have taken against the Kurdistan Region were to increase your popularity before the elections, how do you respond to that?
Haidar al-Abadi: I do not need that. If I wanted to, I would have had huge celebrations in Kirkuk and the rest of the areas after the law. If I wanted to win another state in this way, I would have done the same. Arabs in the rest of Iraq, but I did not and did not take advantage of this issue originally, but remained keen on the interests of all citizens.
After the events of 16 October, specifically during 2017, you had declared and undeclared contacts with Nechirvan Barzani, then head of the Kurdistan Regional Government, which was to restore the relations between Erbil and Baghdad, how and how it affected the return of bilateral relations?
Haidar al-Abadi: Of course, most of them were announced, and there were official visits, we are in one country and cooperate together. Paying salaries in the region was two months before the elections, in addition to the opening of airports, if there were no sanctions, Mr. Nechirvan Barzani was cooperating in this regard. A good understanding between us, a young figure and leadership, and I am optimistic and perhaps moving Kurdistan another way, and also had a good relationship with Mr. Merzur Barzani, even with Mr. Massoud Barzani never broke our relations.
RODAO: I mean, did not your relationship break even after the events of October 16?
Haidar al-Abadi: No, vice versa, even at the time of the referendum, there was a continued attempt to stop this dangerous deterioration. It is not a personal conflict. On the contrary, we have good relations, but there are views on what is happening. There is a country's interest. The measures taken were in this context. Mr. Massoud Barzani did not go wrong, he came to visit the man when he came to Baghdad, and he did not do anything personal in this context.
RODAOU: Do you have the intention of re-obtaining the post of prime minister, and if conditions are created, how will you deal with Kurdish leaders?
Haidar al-Abadi: The intention currently does not exist, but now I serve the country and serve the Iraqis from my new position and I am a political bloc of political, and whether I was prime minister or outside it will continue the same service, but know how to develop the political process, it needs to agree between the blocks, Personal conflict with one, and not against the referendum, which is considered as a mechanism to know the opinion of the citizen, I against a referendum taken by the administration in the Kurdistan Region as a way to try to secede.
RODAOU: You talked and said that the issue of Kirkuk is related to the implementation of Article 140, but there were no new steps to implement the provisions of this article when you were the post of prime minister, what is the reason?
Haidar al-Abadi: This is because the areas we are talking about were occupied by a preacher. It was a dominant advocate of Mosul and the areas around Kirkuk. There was no land contact between us and the Kurdistan Region at one stage. We were there in fighting. To implement the provisions of this Article at that time.
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Former Iraqi Prime Minister Haidar al-Abadi said he does not consider himself against the current government and does not want to "drop it". "If this government is not capable of reform, we will resort to another method," he said.
"The law was imposed in Kirkuk without bloodshed, I have dealt with the Peshmerga clearly, I have not considered the Peshmerga an enemy," Abadi said in an interview with the Roudao media network in "Today's Event" : You are from us and I respect you and cooperate with you, "noting the efforts to improve relations between Erbil and Baghdad:"
The following is the text of the interview:
Ruudao: During the last period, you announced your resignation from all positions in the Dawa Party, and criticized his performance, how can the current leadership of the Dawa Party to take control of things in Iraq again?
Haidar al-Abadi: A group of ideas here, the Dawa party of the very old parties and presented many of the victims against the dictatorship and gave a lot to the Iraqi people and the nation in general, and we are talking about performance and people and not everyone working in any party is infallible and therefore we have to reform Of course, I disagree. The Dawa Party did not assume power in this sense. The Prime Minister was for four sessions, but the government in Iraq is a reconciliation government and a government. The joint between several blocks is thus all responsible And I do not want to judge the Dawa Party in this regard, but perhaps I can judge the political process, whether it is brute power, Baath authority that destroyed Iraq and led us to the bottom or after 2003 and the American occupation and the like of the terrorists and the problems that occurred in The country of disputes between the political blocs.
RODAOUDO: Well, my question is, who are the people who pushed you to criticize the Dawa Party? What is the reason why you are calling to reconsider the party's performance?
Abadi: Certainly there is no infallible person from the wrong, I mentioned in the introduction that there may be achievements and mistakes in my government, I do not claim infallibility, this is a large country and the party is a large system, and there are successes on the one hand and failures on the one hand, This experience is a completely failed experience? Or have bright aspects and perhaps delayed the march? Reform requires walking forward and always improving ourselves. When you look back you may see things you did not see at that stage, perhaps because of maturity or new information you did not own or because of work practices that led to some kind of failure, I hide that it is not all due to ignorance, but perhaps the failure or fall of the human personality in certain joints or stages and causes the decline.
RODAOUD: What was the worst mistake that the Dawa Party made in the period after 2003 until now?
Abadi: I envisage not renewing, which party should renew itself, you know that the Dawa Party was subjected to a fierce attack by the Baathist Baathist regime of executions and prisons and many of its members migrated out of Iraq. The issue of renewing the party in contact with the nation and with the Iraqi citizens needed to be more cohesive with the citizens, we wanted to see the young and different faces of different nationalities and orientations in the country, and this was possible for the party.
RODAO: Is the new leadership of the Dawa party able to renew the party and bring it back to the scene and enjoy the satisfaction of citizens?
Abadi: I had hoped that, so I withdrew from all the positions of leadership in the party and called on my brothers to withdraw also, but it seems that some do not agree with me, let's wait and see, for me did not occupy any leadership position in the party also announced before the conference that I will retreat from All my leadership positions in the party and served the community and the march for which we sacrificed for a long time.
RUDAO: Does this mean that you have just given up on leadership positions and that you are still a member of the Dawa Party?
Abadi: membership in the Dawa Party is a semi-open membership, meaning that you can not give up your 50-year history of jihad. I can not resign from this march and we can not erase the sacrifices we made in one step, and I continue to give and sacrifice. To add a lot of reforms to begin the march of extension of the previous march, but we get rid of mistakes.
RUDAO: Do you want to reform the Dawa Party or establish a new party?
Abadi: No, I will not establish another party. I imagine that we do not need ideological parties at present. Iraq may need them elsewhere. Do not forget that the Dawa Party did not participate in the last parliamentary elections. I am encouraged by this, but the political process needs something else and we have to be close to the citizens, and this is the movement of the present. We must provide services to the citizens and raise our country to make hope.
RODAOUD: As an opponent in the Dawa Party, you are seen as an opponent of Adel Abdel Mahdi's government as well. Do you plan to form an opposition front with the wisdom movement against the government of Abdul Mahdi?
Abadi: Of course the stream of wisdom is closer to us, where we were together in the reform alliance and then in another alliance, they are close to us in their orientations, but each of us has its own specificity. As far as the opposition is concerned we have a point of view and called it a detailed opposition. We are against the current government, and we do not want to topple it. We do not want to weaken it, but to strengthen it, by pointing to the faults of the government to reform them and pointing to the places of power to increase them. This is our present approach. If this government is incapable of reform, We have a political process through which we can change For the state.
RODAOUDO: How long will you wait to make this decision on whether or not to assess the success of the government?
Abadi: Of course, it is a cumulative process. The government is now nine months old. During this period, the government presented an evaluation of its government program and its percentage. We have workshops to study this program, and so far there is a clear difference between what the government is doing and what is proven by reality. Between the two, and I do not imagine that the government document presented with its achievements is close to reality, it is true on paper, for example:And we are looking at the real achievement on the ground, as you know we were suffering from the problems of this government do not suffer from them, as we had a real problem in the budget collapse of oil prices but the prices are good now, we have received a free budget, But it has received a good budget, as well as the security situation where the current government inherited an excellent security situation, as well as Iraq's excellent relations with neighbors and the international community, and the government to add other things also good, and should not be satisfied with previous achievements, because these achievements will end.
RUDAO: Do you mean that the current achievements are not made by the government but by the ones you left?
Abadi: Every government is heir to the previous government. One country and governments govern it. It is cumulative and complementary. The next government is either relying on what exists or correcting the previous government's process. Which is about 7 months to approve all the decisions again, and this step was a step not complementary as if we live in a conflict and not in integration.
RODAOUDO: Well, what are your main criticisms of the current government?
The first is the question of security because it inherited an excellent and good security. It assumes from the beginning of its work to complete the previous work, which is to rebuild the security forces and to be completely subordinate to the state leadership. There is no weapon outside the state. There is progress, and I imagine that this is a big mistake, and the second is government spending. In our time, we cut unnecessary government spending. Because of the rise in oil prices for several years between 2010 and 2014, government spending has become enormous. This is important for the development of the country, to put the rest of the funds for reconstruction But we see that the government is expanding spending seriously again. The draft budget for 2020 is a serious draft, in which there is a huge shortage and unacceptable spending, like a destruction of everything we have done in the past. We are dealing with neighboring countries, but we must not respond to everything
RODAO: You did not address some of the things about services and citizens, but let's talk about the security aspect. I visited Baghdad during your time and wandered around. Now that you have returned, you feel that the number of checkpoints has become less and the security emphasis has been reduced. Security situation or deterioration?
But we did not focus on that, because we had much bigger achievements than that, and if the security leaders in Baghdad and the citizens now retreat, they will tell you that it is a matter of course. But now I do not want to be smaller than what the government has done now, but note that they are talking about this achievement only, which is not the achievement, even if the plan reviewed even the Green Zone We opened it in our time, but in time There were demonstrations that broke into the Green Zone, which we had to close because of the internal elements that wanted to do some work by exploiting this chaos. The current security was not possible without eliminating the urge. At the time, we developed the intelligence apparatus so that it reveals an encouraging planning, Not only execution time, this is a development
Rawadaw: If anyone heard this debate from outside Iraq, they would think Iraqi voters wronged you. Despite these achievements, you could not get a lot of votes. This requires clarification. Did the Iraqis mistake you not to give you confidence again, or are you talking about it? another thing?
Abadi: No, the Iraqi people did not keep me, but the injustice of corrupt and forgers, and I achieved a great achievement in this framework, and we have formed a professional committee is not biased from the Iraqi oversight bodies and proved the existence of fraud on a large level, the political process went like this, but this forgery can not To continue and in the upcoming provincial council elections, we have to do something to prevent it. The other thing is that the bloc was new, starting with the election campaign a month or a month and a half ago, and I did not benefit from the state resources at all, nor from the security forces. So, he did not make a decision in a while Tkhabat can be benefited from it, on the contrary, all delayed decisions until after the elections so that there is no impression, that I benefited from the state, however we have achieved 42 seats suddenly, despite fraud, and I imagine that this is accomplished, the Iraqi people did not punish us, but the voice of us.
Roudao: The bloc was new, but you are a veteran and experienced politician. As I said, you have been fighting for 50 years, not new so people do not know you. Sometimes there is talk of attempts to overthrow the government of Abdul Mahdi. Do you have any information about this?
Abadi: I warn against the overthrow of any government. In my opinion, any government must take its course. Every government has a four-year term and therefore we must allow the government to do what it can. To bring down the government and this leads to the decline of the country, except in one case, if the government is unable to continue either because of poor performance or because of the inability of officials to continue and this is another matter and we have to think about how to find a new government in this case.
RUDAOUD: As part of the criticisms I made to the government of Abdul-Mahdi, you did not talk about some things, including lack of electricity and drinking water, besides unemployment. Why do not you remember it? Are they improved or are they bad?
Abadi: I talked about creating jobs, and I said that this government has a 30% better budget compared to the budget of our previous government, and it should have acted in creating jobs and providing services to citizens, but so far we wait. As for water, I imagine that the water problem has been solved. For this year, because of the heavy rainfall and many waters of the country of origin.
RUDAO: I meant drinking water ..
Drinking water is connected with the presence of water in this framework, and comes from the same source as the water of agriculture and others, we have started a new policy and we can not say that water is always available, the situation is not as it was 50 years ago, because neighboring countries have huge dams, and we have to establish A new water policy, whether for agriculture or drinking, is essential for the country to continue to develop. As for electricity, there is a problem. The government is talking about generating electricity. As you know, electricity production needs at least four years, from design to completion. , If this was from the past and now appeared, but the problem is in Allen This plan needs a strategy, and in my government we signed a road map with Siemens. The study ended in 2018. This map extends from generation to consumption. The current government signed another agreement with Siemens after freezing the first agreement for seven months. The previous agreement, if continued for the status Electricity is better, and this summer is less heat than last summer so far, and therefore the generation of electricity is better, and we should not forget that Iran cut off electricity last summer, by 1200 MW, and this year the electricity has increased 1300 MW, There is a shortage of water and plug the Mosul was not working, but now generates 450 MW, which means that there is an increase of 1200 MW, and with the entry of new service stations assumed an increase of 4,000 MW this year, but this did not reflect on additional service to the citizen, This means that there is a strategic imbalance, the waste of electricity must stop, and the example of Egypt's production Electricity is 29 thousand megawatts and Iraq's current production is 18 thousand, an increase by one and a half, while its souls are three times higher than ours. However, electricity in Egypt is enough for all citizens, some say that Iraq is hotter, but there are hot areas in Egypt, Egypt has heavy military and non-existent industries, and we have the waste
RODAOUD: Why did not you manage to limit the waste of electricity during your rule?
Abadi: We started with the issue of collection and fight the excesses, and do not forget the period of war and there is a lack of potential, but we succeeded, and in the election phase fought political blocs and opened the way to non-collection and called for electricity to be free, and urged people to not pay, The followers of these parties do not pay electricity fees.
RUDAOUD: You are adamant with Prime Minister Adel Abdul Mahdi's decisions about popular mobilization. At the same time, you have criticized some leaders of the popular crowd about wealth-making and the possession of huge palaces. Is there any evidence that they use the name of the crowd?
Criticized some of the politicians who are trying to exploit the popular crowd for their interests, and benefit from it in the field of corruption, and this is not my words, but the words of the leaders of the popular crowd themselves from the heroic fighters who give me this information, and talk about this bitterly, and they are keen to crowd, To protect this experience by keeping the corrupt and prevent them from exploiting the popular crowd by political leaders trying to make the crowd a political side of their interests, and they want to mobilize the popular crowd in the conflicts of the political blocs or in conflicts with the state, while the crowd for each country, This is a big mistake. We also criticized the military commanders who wanted to exploit the army for their own interests. In 2014 I spoke strongly about corruption in the army. We removed some of the leadership and brought in new people, thus improving the army's performance. , But after this reform turned our army into a national army welcome in all
Rawadaw: In the past, when you were prime minister, you praised the popular mobilization in general and gave it support, but you are criticizing it now. My question is, is it because some of the leaders of the crowd did not join the victory coalition and caused you not to be prime minister again? Reason?
Abadi: No, even when I was prime minister, I was attacking those who exploit the popular crowd. Some of the factions stood against me. Some factions were talking against me and trying to assassinate me, but I did not stop and I am not in conflict except with the corrupt ones and I try to preserve this experience. , And at the beginning of 2016 issued a decree ordering the popular mobilization. At the end of that year, the Diwani Order became law in Parliament. In 2018, a system was issued to organize the mobilization and defense of the fighters. Before the elections, it ordered all groups to choose between being in the crowd, Participate in the elections as a political party and cut off But the "group" ran the elections and want to control the popular crowd and exploit its resources badly. This is a new experience in Iraq and we have to protect it. I think that the popular mobilization statement was a strategic mistake that said, "Our corruption is like Corruption of others " , But since you are a new experience, why do you clone the corruption of others? But you have to stay away from corruption, that is, there is a recognition of the existence of corruption and imbalance, but they say: we can not reform, but I say: No, we can reform, the removal of the corrupt.
Roudao: Not far from the popular crowd, and by talking about Kirkuk, you started a process called "law enforcement" in 2017. But an unstable situation ensued. The people in Kirkuk and the region were displaced and the property burned. The Kirkukis say their situation is bad. What happened when I was prime minister?
You know that the status of Kirkuk is a special situation in the Iraqi constitution, and according to the Constitution, Kirkuk is under the control of the federal government, but with the entry of da'id and terrorism, this balance has changed. One of the mistakes that happened is the empowerment of a da'eech. And we have liberated these areas, and Kirkuk should have returned to normal normalization of its status, and this is what we did, and I disagree because coexistence in Kirkuk is better than before, and the federal authority in Kirkuk at least in the time there were strict orders to deal With citizens on the basis of citizenship regardless Their nationalities and their affiliations. Praise be to Allah. The security forces succeeded in dealing well with the citizens of Kirkuk, so that we did not make changes in the local police. They are from the governorate. What is important is the interests of citizens in Kirkuk. The federal is who is in Kirkuk, and the situation is better now than it is
RODAO: There are still many Kirkukis displaced in the Kurdistan Region after 2017, and now in the harvest season many of their crops have been burned, is not that bad in itself?
Abadi: The burning of crops is a crime, and we were hoping that the government would issue an explanation about why the crops were so widely burned this year not only in Kirkuk but also in Mosul and other areas, although there were attempts by terrorism or others. We are talking about the origin. Of course, the security forces are Iraqi, we are Iraqis, we live in one state and therefore the law is imposed by the forces. Iraqi security is good, and I feel in myself that it is Net There are severe and media propaganda by the parties in Kurdistan forces in Kirkuk, called "occupying forces" But who? Are they foreign troops coming from outside the Iraqi border? We must cooperate together to impose security, to have the interests of the citizen in mind, regardless of his identity, and not to say that if I do not control, I have to fight others, and I imagine that dealing with this in one federal country was not seriously separated. The operation was not in Tuzkhurmato but was entirely under the control of the Peshmerga. A year before this date, we asked them to have Iraqi forces with them. In the judiciary, to be better security, but they categorically refused, then at one moment clashed with a To the local residents, and there was a sensitivity between the Turkmen brothers and Kurds inside Tuzkurmatu, and the Peshmerga, and then they went away in one fell swoop, and within 24 hours ordered the re-control of Tuzkhurmatu by the federal authority, has been attacked and burned houses of
RODAO: On this plan, it is still talking in the Kurdistan Region that if no group in the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan called the October 16 group, you could not control Kirkuk, would you like to explain this plan to me?
I did not consider the Peshmerga an enemy, and my speech to the Peshmerga: You from us and I respect you and cooperate with you, the fact that the Peshmerga did not fight, although The Peshmerga did not want to enter into a fight with Iraqi security forces and it is with them, and do not forget that those who participated together in Mosul and became close to each other, and there is a new situation, namely that they did not want to fight, and therefore It was ordered without confrontation, I have heard in the media about the accusation of a betrayal And I imagine that before you accuse others of betrayal, it is better to review your policy. There is a big mistake. Why is it that the Peshmerga, which fought with us, called for fighting heroes? Why did not they fight in Kirkuk? Why did not they obey the orders?
RODAOUDO: Well, but perhaps some say that the Peshmerga fought in my coldness and its passivity?
Abadi: This was later, and later issued orders, and came again, and was an attempt to occupy and bloodshed, and this policy is wrong, because the media unfortunately in some quarters in Kurdistan was wanting bloodshed and fighting until the Kurds line up behind him and control the Kurds, Our policy was quite the opposite, we did not want bloodshed, and I will remind you of something that could have been more than this. The land was open to us, but we did not do it because we knew there would be bloodshed. We know that if our forces had stretched more It is a clash with others, but for us human beings are more important than land and more important than ours I, so keen not to crash.
Roudao: Well, there has been a lot of talk in Kurdistan about this. Some may say how you would move forward. Your troops were broken in the Berdy area when you entered a battle with the Peshmerga forces and the progress of the popular crowd was stopped. Progress?
This is not true, there was an attempt to enter into a confrontation with the Iraqi army, has no justification, and there was no direction to Erbil or any other place, whatever was imposed by law and ended, there have been attempts, And we have proven to us that it is blatantly unjustified aggression, and an attempt by some leaders in Kurdistan to drag the Iraqi army into direct combat, but we have moved away from this subject. We do not want this confrontation. We have no ambitions. I am the prime minister of Iraq. , And the interest of the Sunni as well as interests of the Azzidi and Turkmani all I remember when they said four months later that there was not enough money to pay the salaries and the situation became difficult in the Kurdistan Region, so I sent a team and checked the salaries and found that the existing are 400 1,000 staff in the Region and this information from the Region
RODAO: The Peshmerga forces have been very well described, but after 2017, especially in your speeches, both at home and abroad, you did not mention or mention the Peshmerga forces. Why was there a marginalization of the Peshmerga forces in your recent meetings?
Haidar al-Abadi: No, I did not mention the Peshmerga. I did not mention all the items. I did not mention the Peshmerga, so the brothers in the popular crowd were hurt and said that I did not mention the popular crowd. Iraqiya and all its varieties, and I did not intend definitely not to call the Peshmerga or not to call the popular crowd.
Roudao: My question will be related to the referendum. You mentioned that you support Kurdistan, the citizens of Kurdistan and all the citizens of Iraq. At the same time, you imposed a number of sanctions on the citizens of Kurdistan Region. At a time when you consider all Iraqis to be offered all services?
We did not impose sanctions, they also call them, we wanted to impose the correct mechanisms, airports and everything related to the outside of Iraq all belong to the federal authority, we prevented us from flying abroad except by imposing federal authority, but they refused to do so we had to stop international flights and that they committed , When they committed, we prepared international flights at the airport of Erbil and Sulaymaniyah, if the sanctions were not by us but were from the authority in Kurdistan, it imposed a penalty on the population and wanted to be a problem, but once we imposed the law were opened airports, the other thing, there is cooperation The Iraqi army also defended the Kurdistan Region, the Peshmerga and the other forces and citizens after the liberation of Mosul are sleeping at night quietly, and even the Peshmerga axes that were adjacent to the drowsy areas of Mosul, the Peshmerga forces participated with the Iraqi forces in some axes to eliminate the crowd together, but it was not true and once The connector has been freed to go to
The Kurdish leaders came to Baghdad and discussed with you before the referendum. They explained to you that it is not for independence. They said that we only want to know the opinion of our citizens on the question of the referendum, and I also, through my program, have emphasized many of the guests I hosted. Or not, and they responded that only to know the opinion of citizens, why was it so heavy for you to this extent?
Haidar al-Abadi: Yes, that's what they said. We heard about the referendum from the media. I told them that this is not a referendum, this is an opinion. There are institutions that take the opinion of the citizen, so why is the regional government doing this? I have declared it more than once as Prime Minister that I respect the aspirations of the Kurdish citizens in the Kurdistan Region, which Kurdi may aspire to have a state, both inside Iraq and abroad, and I respect this ambition, but this is something and that you cut off part of Iraq , They said this, but when the referendum approached, they said something else, and they became And I did not do anything until the referendum, only addressed the Federal Court to reject the referendum, and addressed us the international community, and they were with us, the loss of Iraq at that stage was not true, but the group became insistent on the establishment of a separate territory so they entered into Problems with the rest of Iraqis and neighboring countries.
RUDAO: It is said that the measures that you have taken against the Kurdistan Region were to increase your popularity before the elections, how do you respond to that?
Haidar al-Abadi: I do not need that. If I wanted to, I would have had huge celebrations in Kirkuk and the rest of the areas after the law. If I wanted to win another state in this way, I would have done the same. Arabs in the rest of Iraq, but I did not and did not take advantage of this issue originally, but remained keen on the interests of all citizens.
After the events of 16 October, specifically during 2017, you had declared and undeclared contacts with Nechirvan Barzani, then head of the Kurdistan Regional Government, which was to restore the relations between Erbil and Baghdad, how and how it affected the return of bilateral relations?
Haidar al-Abadi: Of course, most of them were announced, and there were official visits, we are in one country and cooperate together. Paying salaries in the region was two months before the elections, in addition to the opening of airports, if there were no sanctions, Mr. Nechirvan Barzani was cooperating in this regard. A good understanding between us, a young figure and leadership, and I am optimistic and perhaps moving Kurdistan another way, and also had a good relationship with Mr. Merzur Barzani, even with Mr. Massoud Barzani never broke our relations.
RODAO: I mean, did not your relationship break even after the events of October 16?
Haidar al-Abadi: No, vice versa, even at the time of the referendum, there was a continued attempt to stop this dangerous deterioration. It is not a personal conflict. On the contrary, we have good relations, but there are views on what is happening. There is a country's interest. The measures taken were in this context. Mr. Massoud Barzani did not go wrong, he came to visit the man when he came to Baghdad, and he did not do anything personal in this context.
RODAOU: Do you have the intention of re-obtaining the post of prime minister, and if conditions are created, how will you deal with Kurdish leaders?
Haidar al-Abadi: The intention currently does not exist, but now I serve the country and serve the Iraqis from my new position and I am a political bloc of political, and whether I was prime minister or outside it will continue the same service, but know how to develop the political process, it needs to agree between the blocks, Personal conflict with one, and not against the referendum, which is considered as a mechanism to know the opinion of the citizen, I against a referendum taken by the administration in the Kurdistan Region as a way to try to secede.
RODAOU: You talked and said that the issue of Kirkuk is related to the implementation of Article 140, but there were no new steps to implement the provisions of this article when you were the post of prime minister, what is the reason?
Haidar al-Abadi: This is because the areas we are talking about were occupied by a preacher. It was a dominant advocate of Mosul and the areas around Kirkuk. There was no land contact between us and the Kurdistan Region at one stage. We were there in fighting. To implement the provisions of this Article at that time.
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